並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%E5%8C%97%E6%8A%95%E4%BA%BA%EF%BD%98%E7%94%9C%E9%BB%9E%E5%B8%AB-ep-05-%E6%83%B3%E6%8C%91%E5%A5%BD%E5%90%83%E7%9A%84%E9%9B%9E%E8%9B%8B-%E7%94%9C%E9%BB%9E%E5%B8%AB%E6%95%99%E4%BD%A0%E6%80%8E%E9%BA%BC%E6%8C%91/id1615773385?i=1000570654033