並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-03-%E8%91%A1%E8%90%84%E9%85%92%E7%B3%BB%E5%88%97-%E8%88%87%E7%94%9C%E9%85%92%E4%B9%8B%E7%8E%8B%E4%B8%80%E6%8E%A2%E5%8C%88%E7%89%99%E5%88%A9%E7%9A%84%E5%9C%8B%E5%AF%B6%E9%85%92-jack/id1533619954?i=1000493540073